| Author | Topic: Alright, this is a challenge to all theists. |
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Kimura | 10/28/2009 5:48:01 PM  Locked Thread
Let this be the official "Defend your faith" thread. Put forth an argument for what you believe and why, and hopefully it will spark some sort of decent discussion. I'll try the best I can to keep up with responses if people choose to participate.  |
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Kimura | 10/28/2009 6:54:50 PMLocked Thread
Okay maybe not just theists, so that we can get a broader range of responses. |
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JDM1971 | 10/29/2009 4:26:03 AMLocked Thread
Basic outline:
I believe that humans are conscious. People can send and receive consciousness to/from one another and to/from an originating source. Reason: personal experience, discussion with others on their similar experiences and simplicity.
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 8:50:21 AMLocked Thread
JDM1971 quote:
Basic outline:
I believe that humans are conscious. People can send and receive consciousness to/from one another and to/from an originating source. Reason: personal experience, discussion with others on their similar experiences and simplicity.
do you believe there is a God? Do you consider yourself as belonging to any religion?
Please enlighten me as to how the consciousness issue you talked about relates to the idea of God. |
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sark | 10/29/2009 9:04:11 AMLocked Thread
GOD IS DEAD - NEECHI
okbye |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 9:04:41 AMLocked Thread
sark quote:
GOD IS DEAD - NEECHI
okbye
lolthx |
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NCross18 | 10/29/2009 9:23:49 AMLocked Thread
Kimura, you know i think you're a cool dude and all,
but you read one book
and now your the residential debate master for atheism?
I see no reason for a small single celled and multicelled organisms to develop light sensitivity and eventually the eye.
Evolution as we understand it works mostly in mutations, some becoming beneficial and therefor taking over as the successful trait that propagates within the species.
how does a membrane or cell on a very small organism mutate to become light sensitive which started the evolutionary train that eventually lead to eyeballs?
To me that is like imagining a human who is born who all of a sudden has a spot on his forehead that is capable of sensing radiation or infra red light. Just donesn't seem plausible to me.
There for I could say I believe in some sort of larger pattern, possibly cookie cutter, that all universes follow to an extent. there are certain things that happen that require pretty large leaps of science with out motivation as we currently understand the world. That's not to say those motivations don't exist, but that they are beyond our current comprehension. I could say that I believe there is a motivating force that is driving all energy, mass, intellect, etc.. towards perfection/unification.
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 10:22:31 AMLocked Thread
NCross18 quote:
Kimura, you know i think you're a cool dude and all,
but you read one book
and now your the residential debate master for atheism?
I see no reason for a small single celled and multicelled organisms to develop light sensitivity and eventually the eye.
Evolution as we understand it works mostly in mutations, some becoming beneficial and therefor taking over as the successful trait that propagates within the species.
how does a membrane or cell on a very small organism mutate to become light sensitive which started the evolutionary train that eventually lead to eyeballs?
To me that is like imagining a human who is born who all of a sudden has a spot on his forehead that is capable of sensing radiation or infra red light. Just donesn't seem plausible to me.
There for I could say I believe in some sort of larger pattern, possibly cookie cutter, that all universes follow to an extent. there are certain things that happen that require pretty large leaps of science with out motivation as we currently understand the world. That's not to say those motivations don't exist, but that they are beyond our current comprehension. I could say that I believe there is a motivating force that is driving all energy, mass, intellect, etc.. towards perfection/unification.
You know what annoys me? When I try to make a thread to discuss religion and someone comes in here telling me I don't know enough to make that thread. If you don't like my threads, please don't participate. What gives YOU the right to be so high and mighty? I have done quite a bit more research than the 2 Richard Dawkins books I've read. I have also studied philosoph, the bible, physics, chemistry, biology, sociology, and a multitude of other things. Why does any of that have any bearing on whether or not I can make a thread on a forum? The simple fact that I downplay my ow |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 10:23:12 AMLocked Thread
damn i typed out an entire reply, and it got cut off. fuck that shit. wow. |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 10:24:02 AMLocked Thread
Kimura quote:
You know what annoys me? When I try to make a thread to discuss religion and someone comes in here telling me I don't know enough to make that thread. If you don't like my threads, please don't participate. What gives YOU the right to be so high and mighty? I have done quite a bit more research than the 2 Richard Dawkins books I've read. I have also studied philosoph, the bible, physics, chemistry, biology, sociology, and a multitude of other things. Why does any of that have any bearing on whether or not I can make a thread on a forum? The simple fact that I downplay my ow
at least to finish my first paragraph..
the simple fact that I downplay my own level of education has no bearing on whether or not I can discuss these things on a forum. What gives you more right to discuss these things than me?-This message has been edited by Kimura on 10/29/2009 10:24:44 AM |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 10:28:22 AMLocked Thread
and in regards to the eye, i think it's silly to liken a spot on a human forehead to a single light-sensitive cell in a primitive organism, because it involves many more orders of magnitude of cells. it doesn't take much imagination to think about a mutation in a primitive organism causing a single cell with the ability to detect light, which would give that organism a tremendous advantage over others. From there, it is easy to see how natural selection could give us an eye.
and as far as your beliefs, do you think the motivating force is a conscious being? and you'll have to explain to me again how this theory agrees with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, i didn't really get it the first time. thanks. |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 1:47:38 PMLocked Thread
JB31 quote:
I'm an atheist, but why try to force anyone to defend what they believe?
i'm not forcing anyone to do anything. this is a forum, they can post or not post. i'm trying to spark discussion. |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 2:02:47 PMLocked Thread
JB31 quote:
Fair enough.
But you know what you believe, what more do you need to know?
i want to discuss and hear other points of view. it is when I'm comfortable with my own beliefs and stop searching for knowledge that I stop growing. |
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NCross18 | 10/29/2009 2:09:50 PMLocked Thread
i'll get back to reading your replies later. I just think it's humorous that you have been so active in insisting there is no possibility of god.
also, this is the religion and philosophy forum.
posting about atheism in this forum is a lot like me posting about how I refuse to buy country music albums in a country music forum.
I could see the point of it, if i was offering other musicians for suggested listening that i found favorable, but atheism, strictly speaking, is just a lack of belief in something. You are providing no alternative philosophy. |
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NCross18 | 10/29/2009 2:12:53 PMLocked Thread
Kimura quote:
and in regards to the eye, i think it's silly to liken a spot on a human forehead to a single light-sensitive cell in a primitive organism, because it involves many more orders of magnitude of cells. it doesn't take much imagination to think about a mutation in a primitive organism causing a single cell with the ability to detect light, which would give that organism a tremendous advantage over others. From there, it is easy to see how natural selection could give us an eye.
and as far as your beliefs, do you think the motivating force is a conscious being? and you'll have to explain to me again how this theory agrees with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, i didn't really get it the first time. thanks.
I was merely posing a counter arguement. tho i disagree with your assesment of the ease.
More likely would be that lightwaves always existed, and it's in the very nature of cells to be effected by them... like the production of certain vitamins. This sensitivity, over time, resulted in cells that better interacted with or translated lightwaves into vitamins or other beneficial uses, until that gradually became sophisticated enough to discern different lightwaves from one another. |
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NCross18 | 10/29/2009 2:13:56 PMLocked Thread
also, i never told you what you could or couldn't discuss.
but don't pretend like after reading your dawkins books this didn't become a persistent topic with you when before you didn't bring up a word about it. that's all i was pointing out. |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 2:15:52 PMLocked Thread
NCross18 quote:
i'll get back to reading your replies later. I just think it's humorous that you have been so active in insisting there is no possibility of god.
also, this is the religion and philosophy forum.
posting about atheism in this forum is a lot like me posting about how I refuse to buy country music albums in a country music forum.
I could see the point of it, if i was offering other musicians for suggested listening that i found favorable, but atheism, strictly speaking, is just a lack of belief in something. You are providing no alternative philosophy.
I'm actually not an atheist, or at least haven't decided on that yet. And where have I ever said that there is NO possibility of a god? I only claim that it is improbable. I am arguing from a certain standpoint in the hopes that someone can put forth a compelling argument and give me something to think about. It's a forum. I'm using it exactly the way it's intended to be used. This thread is asking others to post their beliefs, and why they believe them. It is beneficial in the sense that they can strengthen their arguments and I can hear them and form my own opinions on them. |
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NCross18 | 10/29/2009 2:16:15 PMLocked Thread
like a born again christian that insists on bringing up jesus in every convo since recently being 'saved'.
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 2:16:52 PMLocked Thread
NCross18 quote:
also, i never told you what you could or couldn't discuss.
but don't pretend like after reading your dawkins books this didn't become a persistent topic with you when before you didn't bring up a word about it. that's all i was pointing out.
it was before that book that this became a persistent topic with me. and your tone is extremely condescending, as if I am not qualified to be discussing these things. |
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Kimura | 10/29/2009 2:20:18 PMLocked Thread
NCross18 quote:
like a born again christian that insists on bringing up jesus in every convo since recently being 'saved'.
well yes, in the sense that I really enjoy talking about it and arguing about it so that I can strengthen my points, or change them as necessary. |
